During this conversation Frances Harry interviews Mark Olson, a member of the Dayton community of the Secular Order of Discaled Carmelites. This program in a continuation of the conversation on the article written by respected scholar and Carmelite Priest, Father Ernest Larkin, on St. Teresa of Avila on Prayer. Here Frances and Mark explore the goal of union with God (spiritual marriage, transforming union). The conversation focuses on “The Way” to the “Goal” via the mansions. Several points about the first 3 ascetical mansions are made which then reaches a transition point or bridge of the 4th mansion to the mystical mansions of the 5th, 6th and 7th mansions.